Thranduil's Wife

[Thranduil]

I know neither Thranduil, Legolas, Gandalf, Elrond, Bilbo nor anybody else has ever mentioned a Woodland Queen; but there must have been someone special...

I know its somewhat grim; but I always figured she had died...

...though considering the differences in opinion regarding the age of Legolas (forgetting for a moment the idea of any other siblings - thats a debate within itself!); between 300 and 3000 (yes they are that divided!), the Elf Queen could be still alive...

I bet she's (was(?)) dishy...

[What of Thranduil's mother? She didn't die on Dagorlad. Perhaps its more like free love in the realms of the Nandorin (Did I just say that out loud?) ]

[galadriel]

No way was there 'free love', though that is a rather attractive thought. Personally, I think she's probably alive and well. Perhaps she was just visiting relatives while the events of the Hobbit were taking place, which would explain why there was no mention of her. Also, it would make sense to assume that she is Silvan since Legolas clearly considers himself Silvan in the Lord of the Rings.

I also am of the mind that not only is Legolas nearer to three hundred than three thousand (probably five hundred, actually), but also that he is not the only child (or the first son, for that matter) and that he is likely married and has a child or two himself.

[Lady Arwen]

Of all the scandals in Middle Earth...!

XD

I think that a good deal of the Fellowship members were married. Boromir and Legolas were more than likely married with children, though you are correct, there is no mention of them because the books are supposedly based of the book written by Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam. The majority of the events, people, and actions we read are based of off the hobbits reckoning, so very personal stuff such as marital life, children, and personal problems were probably not mentioned.

...

But Legolas had to have a mother at some point, and considering his age and the like, his mommy dearest is more than likely still alive, and possibly even still in Middle Earth. But if the conditions in Mirkwood were as bad as we're led to believe, she might have left for the Undying Lands to wait for her husband and sons.

[Thranduil]

It is a shame about the 'free love thang', 'cause its unlikely (though not necessarily impossible), judging by the usual habits and culture of elves.

I don't (personally) think that Thranduil's queen would necessarily be of Sindar decent, as the two peoples were entirely integrated; also, Legolas often reveres to himself as part of the Silvan folk... as the Sindar element regarded themselves. I think that is inconclusive.

I must admit the approximation of 500 years old for Legolas is v. close to the mark (,for my mind).

I'm sorry to say, I've never been too keen on the theory that many more of the characters were married than is let on in the book. It may be true for some (obviously)
I'm not saying Gimli is unnattractive... ; but there were around only a third part females (or was it a quarter), within Dwarf society. Also, in the third age, Elves multiplied more slowly...
In the year 120 of the Fourth age, Legolas sailed with Gimli (The only Dwarf to reach Aman). No wives were mentioned...
There was no grieving wife for Boromir; but then he had Mordor to fight day on day... Faramir had no wife mentioned (at the age of 35); he was then married at 36 (I think (?))

I'm not saying the idea is wrong; but inconclusive...


As has been told before: The lords of Middle Earth generally married at a later age (remembering at this point that, even Gimli was of minor lordship. He was a blood relative of Durin's line).

Anyway, I shall pause for breath...

[Lady Arwen]

No no, that makes perfect sense. But like I said, the LotR books are supposedly written based on the books by Bilbo and Frodo, so if they were married, we'd never know. Wives and the like aren't exactly.... questy.

[lasslaer]

I aggree! questy is a funny word i think. You know what I have also noticed?Getting on to a more mother type toipc. I have talked to alot of people about how we know nothing of three of the fellowships mothers, Legolas, Gimli, and Boromir I mean. Most people i have talked to seem to be inclinded to think that Boromir and Legolas's mothers are dead but Gimli's is still right as rain in the Lonley Mountain. I just thought that was odd.

Personaly I think Legolas's mother has gone to the Undying Lands for I am sure Thorin would have mentioned at queen to Bilbo in his account of what happened to him. Or that Bilbo would have seen her him self. So I think it unlikly she still resides in Mirkwood. I my self also think that Legolas is closer to 800 then 500 because he says that 500 years seems little time to the elves and himself so I think he was born sometime in the Watchful Peace. As for marriage.. I would like to say that Legolas is single and with out children because that seems more heroic. But I think it might be proable that he is married or is planning on marriage but not so much children mostly because Elrond says that the elves are decreesing so that makes me think that elflings are becoming almost as rare as entings. But who can say to be certain?

[Thranduil]

I would say wives were questy. Why do the common men accept the draft and fight; for their wives and children mainly, and their families...

Frodo is explicitly described as a batchelor... (thats one down)

Most adventuring types don't have wives because they move arround all the time... If they were all married with kids, it would be a nuclear family overload for me... not suggesting that this necessarily describes our heroes; who were all lords. (Even Frodo was landed gentry)

The hobbits recolection mentions...
wedding of Faramir and Eowyn
Eomer and Imrahil's daughter (whatever her name is)
Aragorn and Arwen (obviously)
Sam and Rose

There was no mention of...
Legolas, Gimli, Haldir, Merry or Pippin (or Gandalf for that matter) getting married or having children with anybody...
The more obscure characters (like beregond - who had a child), are in many cases likely to be married, with or without children. There was maybe too little time to ask them all individually (I jest)

To in any way assume that Gimli and legolas were married is unfounded.

There is suggestion in some circles that Legolas and Gimli get together in the end: I don't agree there either...

[curandir]

Aglar’ni Pheriannath! Eglerio!

I'm glad they get married, shame there are no little Brandybucks running around...

So most of them do get married in the end then...

[Lady Arwen]

Yeah, I can tell you that the hobbits had children because I did some geneology.... yeah, that was crazy.

At any rate, I like these ideas that you all have here. They are indeed something that should be considered, at the very least, considering how important family seems to be in the books. If we were to come to a conclusion on this, I think we could write one heck of an essay. That is, if you all wanted to. Imagine, our ideas being posted at a huge database, some place like Arwen-Undomiel.com or something.

[galadriel]

We do know somethings about Boromir's mother. I don't remember any off the top of my head, but her name and some of her family is known. She did die, I believe when Faramir and Boromir were rather young. There's a theory that she did in childbirth, but I doubt that.

I don't think Boromir was married and I don't think Gimli was either. In the books, Legolas is painfully private and it can be assumed that he really never disclosed any private information with the hobbits. I believe that if The Lord of the Rings were meant to have been written by Aragorn or Gandalf, we would know a heck of a lot more about Legolas than we do now..

I really, firmly believe that Legolas wasn't the only son of Thranduil. He behaves in a way that suggests that he is in absolutely no danger of inheriting any throne which seems odd given how dangerous a place Mirkwood is famed to have been. My guess is that there's atleast two sons older than Legolas. I like to think of him as the baby of the family. No real reason, just do.

[curandir]

www.istad.org/tolkien/legolas.html

all things legolas, with supporting quotes and reasonings... the link to M. Martinez' essay within, is also good, with another perspective.


Leggy: "...maybe he was born in 2931 of the First Age."

What makes you think that?
The Legolas of Gondolin was a Noldo...

[Thranduil]

Its not that non-conformist to think Legolas is up to 3000 years old; its quite widely held actually... I must admit I am leaning further towards that view now than ever before; but there is no evidence to suggest he was born before the Last alliance (either that or he was too young to fight in it...)
The author makes no assumptions, but reads between the lines and is open to a range of possibilites... evidently, well versed in that character.

You wouldn't like the other Essay it suggests a much lower age of around 700 to 900 years... still very well researched though...

[boromir]

thranduil said:

Its not that non-conformist to think Legolas is up to 3000 years old; its quite widely held actually... I must admit I am leaning further towards that view now than ever before; but there is no evidence to suggest he was born before the Last alliance (either that or he was too young to fight in it...)
The author makes no assumptions, but reads between the lines and is open to a range of possibilites... evidently, well versed in that character.

If I may ask, why are you leaning more towards that view now? What is changing or has changed your mind?

[Thranduil]

I believe him to be between 900 and 2000 years old, possibly just over 2000... quite likely 1350 (a nice average)

for 500 years to seem a brief while (although I point out in the quote he says 'for us', meaning his people)
and yet born after the last northern migration in TA 1000; retreating from the shadow of Dol Guldur, which Legolas talks of as history. This also follows the fact that Amroth and Nimrodel, certainly died before he was born.

He knew of the Balrog, when he saw it; but did not speak of it prior to entry. His people would have heard rumour of it (TA1980) but would have passed it into legend over the next thousand years... If Amroth and Nimrodel went missing the year after TA 1981 this would make Legolas around a thousand (900 being the lowest estimate for me)

So between 900 and 2000, depending on your sources.

Any higher than that and there is v little to support it.
I think P Jacksons 2,931 was plucked out of the air, literally. Or researched by someone looking for that sort of answer... Is it a coincidence that the age figure matches the year of Aragorns birth; perhaps, perhaps not...

I think they wanted him as old as possible, while maintaining the fact that he did not do battle on Dagorlad... (arguably he was amongst the lords fighting alongside Thranduil in the Battle of five armies.)

[lasslaer]

Yes PJ and the crew picked that Legolas's age would match Aragorn's year of BIrth. Anyway I found an essay that I liked alot. a few strange ideas but there are some good ones in there about Legolas and his...mother situation....
Ahh I am sorry the link isn't working here copy paste the url in a new window


www.theonering.com/articles/19961,1.html

[Thranduil]

Boromir, most certainly never married.

It interests me that Noble families didn't marry off their children young as they have done in most recorded Human societies...
Galadriel and Celeborn, married very late for example... Arwen and Aragorn (for obvious reasons)... Faramir was well into his thirties (Eowyn around 24)... Eomer at 29 (Lothiriel 22) etc etc.

[Mereneth Hirilaeg]

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to think that Legolas had a wife. It just would make sense, and it detracts from the idea of him being *iffy* with Gimli, which I do not approve of. As for Thranduil's wife, I never thought that she was Sindar. And if she was in the Undying Lands it would give greater poignancy to Legolas' calling himself a Silvan Elf.

He and his father probably love and miss her greatly. Thranduil probably never mentioned her thusly because of his grief.

Poor Thranduil...I have a FREE HUG for you. If you want it... *lol*

[Thranduil]

lol Thanks, I agree with what you say regarding his Silvan identity, and also supporting this, Thranduil would most likely have been married before he moved eastward, if he were to later marry from within his company... or i the least it seems that it would have been mentioned.

Saying that though, I still do not think Legolas is married, else why leave her in Middle earth and sail to the undying lands with Gimli? Or indeed go traveling with him for years post Ring War...
That is not to say the tyalk of Gimli/Legolas as lovers has any real foundation.

On the other hand, regarding Thranduil's wife (wives? - lets not go there): think of Beorn. No wife mentioned, and yet he had a son, Grimbeorn, who ruled after him... are we to belive all the people of the North have either lost or never married while still having children, I doubt it.

Unfortunately, only Hobbit, Dunadan and Eldar culture is really detailed with patchy reference to the Rohirrim and others by Tolkien


Thanks for reviving this, after re-reading it, I realised how different my perspective is now from when i first posted the topic. [4&half years ago !!]

[Mereneth Hirilaeg]

I think *death* might have played a big part in the whole etchiness. As for the wife for Legolas thing, it is perfectly normal to think that she stayed in Ithilien. I mean, what with the colonies leaders up and gone for large expeditions, that is not something entirely unthinkable. Though this probably means that she went along.

Maybe the colony in Ithilien was like the traveling circus. I don't know. Now I'm just adlibing.